bridgetalk.com forums :: Laws & Rulings

65 posts
bridgetalk member

legal 1nt opener? ( 19:12:54 MonApr 28 2003 )

In my billiionth attempt to construct a big club/4 card major system with which I am happy, I'm currently fantasizing about a system like this:

1c:strong
2x: 11-15 hcps, 6+ long.
1M=4-5 long, no 6 card suit anywhere in hand UNLESS opener is strong enough to jump rebid his own suit (max hand/max suit)
1nt: 11-15 hcps, must be balanced and must have 4-5 spades. Now 2c asks for size/shape, and the answers are 2d=not 5 spades/not 4 hearts; 2h=4-4 majors; 2s=5S332
1d: everything else

My question is, would this 1nt opening bid be legal?

FWIW, I'm a us/na player.

Thanks,

HenryS

mycroft

67 posts
bridgetalk member

Re: legal 1nt opener? ( 19:58:25 MonApr 28 2003 )

Quote: HenryS

1nt: 11-15 hcps, must be balanced and must have 4-5 spades. Now 2c asks for size/shape, and the answers are 2d=not 5 spades/not 4 hearts; 2h=4-4 majors; 2s=5S332

From the Definitions of the GCC:

Quote: ACBL GCC

A notrump opening or overcall is natural if not unbalanced (generally, no singleton or void and only one or two doubletons).

It doesn't seem to say that you aren't allowed to make restrictive treatments - which is what your guaranteed 4

is. Nor do the "can't use conventions" restrictions apply - provided you do not cheat the HCP!

For exactly the same reason you can't play 10-12 and open 1NT with KQT9 KJT9 T97 T8, you can't play this and open KQT9 KQT9 T97 T8 1NT - or, at least, "if you both consider this appropriate, or if you have significant experience thinking that one of you considers it appropriate for a 11-15 1NT, you have more than a 5 HCP range, and can't use any conventions after". Better not open 1NT with T9754 Q32 AK2 AK, either.

You might be interested in Colin Ward's Valentines' 1NT opener - it guarantees 4=3, 4=4, or 5=3(32) in the majors, but should have some ideas. That part of Valentines is GCC legal - the relay aspects of it, of course are a different story altogether :-)

I am not an ACBL employee, but I don't see any difference between "could be 5M332" or "can not be 5332 any" and "guarantees 4 spades".

Michael.
[edited to clarify "relay aspects" statement] [1 edits; Last edit by mycroft at 18:23:11 Wed Apr 30 2003]

ne_trepide

Re: legal 1nt opener? ( 09:49:05 TueApr 29 2003 )

australia
the question as to the shape required for any opening hand introduces "opening points" into the system.
a 1nt opener MUST be balanced and contain 18 opening points, where the definition of opening points is the sum of your high card points and the cards in your 2 longest suits.
legally you cannot open 1nt with a 4443 shape with fewer than 10 hcps.
with a 5332 the same hcps are required.
an exception to this rule is permitted whereby you may open 1nt with an unbalanced hand provided you hold 25 opening points.
this means that a shape of 6331 and 16 hcps is ok and so on................
you may deviate from this but to do so you may create an implied agreement that may require alerting of the 1nt bid.

mycroft

67 posts
bridgetalk member

Re: legal 1nt opener? ( 16:54:26 TueApr 29 2003 )

ne_trepide: He did say he was a US player, though the rules for Australia do make an interesting contrast.

HenryS: as you can see, FWIW is a lot. BTW, I'd probably Alert this 1NT opener - it's almost certainly a "highly unusual or unexpected" treatment. A side bonus is that if you Alert it, you will get an official ruling within a session or two - somebody's going to call the TD with an "is this legal?" query!

I wonder if this should have been moved into the "Laws and Rulings" forum.
Michael.

bluejak

427 posts
Forum Host

Reply

Re: legal 1nt opener? ( 12:43:47 WedApr 30 2003 )

Someone has now moved this query into the IBLF. Here we always ask people to accompany their queries with the country they play in {or put 'Online' if that is where they are asking about}. This question is an excellent example of why - the answers are vastly different from country to country.

Fortunately the questioner did say he was in the USA. So the rules in Australia, England, and everwhere else do not apply. What you may play is a matter for the sponsoring organisation. In many cases the national organisation say what may be played not just in their own events but any events run under license from them, which basically means that ACBL rules apply in 90%+ of all events in North America.

I personally did not answer the original question because Michael's answer seemed to me to cover all bases.

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David Stevenson <laws2@blakjak.com>
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International Bridge Laws Forum

If you need help with the Laws or rulings from any country in the world, this is the place!Hosted by David StevensonSenior Consultant DirectorEnglish Bridge Union

If you need help with the Laws or rulings from
any country in the world, this is the place!

Hosted by David Stevenson
Senior Consultant Director
English Bridge Union